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George Rebane

The local blogs and my emails have been buzzing with questions and charges of how non-profit 501c3  organizations (like SBC) and private California corporations (like CABPRO) should deport themselves.  Apropos such organizations, attorney Barry Pruett (Inside NC Politics) has given good tutorials on the relevant sections of the tax code.  My problem with the Sierra Business Council arose during recent KVMR commentaries and on-air Prop23 discussions with Mr Steven Frisch, president and CEO of SBC.

In my mind the situation was pretty clear and simple.  SBC gets a big hunk of its funding from government grants that are dispensed from the federal government’s general fund into which all the country’s taxpayers pay.  SBC says it spends these monies in support of various federal and state environmental programs.  And it follows that the more complex and extensive the regulatory environment is for such programs, the more SBC can propose to do and then receive more funding from its government and institutional sources.

ManBehindCurtain If Prop23 fails, California will feel the full fury of AB32.  Newly minted carbon control, monitoring, and enforcement regulations will multiply like fleas and ticks after a warm summer rain.  It will be a windfall for NGOs like SBC.  As a salaried employee of SBC, it is in Mr Frisch’s self-interest to promote the continued relevance and funding of his employer and his employment.  So it is natural for Mr Frisch to appear at as many public forums and media outlets as possible speaking against Prop23 – in doing so, he is simply a professional singing for his supper.

My point here is that when he does make such statements, his audience should know his self-interests in the matter.  In my view, he should not pass himself off as just another concerned private citizen purveying debatable ‘information’ about AB32’s effect on California’s economy.  Now, our local leftwingers are opposed to Mr Frisch (and anyone else) having to make such disclosures, and KVMR has made it clear that it also felt it was wrong of me to point out SBC’s relationship to the implementation of AB32.  In fact, their position was that the money trail from the American taxpayer to the SBC coffers was only an unsubstantiated opinion that I hold.

Having said all this, the local left has countered with questions about CABPRO which is a private California corporation that espouses publicly stated conservative positions, causes, and candidates as it is allowed by law.  All this has been done in a so far successful rush to divert attention from the blatantly progressive SBC that, I believe, promotes liberal causes under the guise of a publicly funded (government and tax deferred grants, and tax-deductible contributions) non-partisan organization.  As the wizard said, ‘Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!’ 

I suppose all this is just local politics in action.  And I again remind the reader that I am a member and former board member of CABPRO.  However, in these commentaries I speak for myself as a private citizen and without the approval and/or endorsement of CABPRO.

Posted in , ,

102 responses to “… of shoes and ships and sealing wax (and SBC)”

  1. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    So… Martin Light from CABPRO says CABPRO is a 501(c)(4). Barry Pruett says CABPRO is a 501(c)(4).
    So Martin Light, simple question to you… is that correct?

    Like

  2. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Perhaps you hapless liberals need to read the application for membership. It is so funny reading these people. If Pelline was an editor, then he is a sorry example of a researcher. Anna has a website that looks like a cluttered room from my kids at three. No wonder.
    http://www.cabpro.org/CABPRO/CABPRO_Home_files/CABPRO_Membership_Application.pdf

    Like

  3. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    You lying sack of gravy….perhaps the public should read the membership application that was on the site up until last night when this nonsense really started to get serious, before your guys took it down, changed two words and put it back up. What do you thin we are…stupid?
    By the way I heard Anna called the IRS today and guess what? according to them CABPRO is not a 501c4. So why did they say they were, why did they allow Barry to post a message on their blog saying they were? why did they allow Russ, who works there, represent them as such, and why don’t you just admit it?
    Is there something wrong with being a for profit business?

    Like

  4. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I think you are overheating.

    Like

  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Steve Frisch Someone told me you are a cook in a restaurant. Is that true?

    Like

  6. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    What do you thin we are…stupid?
    Um, sorta…..

    Like

  7. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    George, shut down this page of inane insult trading and invite some serious commentary on AB32 and Prop 23. California is losing its juice while we increasingly wail away on each other over the irrelevant.

    Like

  8. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    So… Martin Light from CABPRO says CABPRO is a 501(c)(4)and Barry Pruett says CABPRO is a 501(c)(4).
    Seems it’s all been a lie… will Martin respond?

    Like

  9. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Here’s some serious info about AB32. The Chronicle is reporting that the diesel rules were based on faulty information from the CARB. They were off by a mere 340%.
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/07/BAOF1FDMRV.DTL&ao=3
    Weird Science at work.

    Like

  10. Russ Steele Avatar

    Steven,
    You wrote: “why did they allow Russ, who works there, represent them as such.” I would like to make some corrections.
    1) I do not work for CABPRO, as a freelance writer I submit articles to CABPRO News for the editors consideration, just like I did for the Union before switching editors.
    2) I do not recall ever representing CABPRO as a non-profit, best I can determine, they are a for profit corporation.
    Please try to be more precise.

    Like

  11. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Perhaps you guys should have been more precise all along.
    You are a featured poster in a newsletter and blog that has represented itself as a non-profit that appears to not be a non-profit. You have allowed others to post on the sites that you manage, or regularly comment on, the fiction that CABPRO is a non-profit without correcting it, while now claiming CABPRO is not a non-profit, and implying that you knew that all along. You have been listed on the CABPRO web site as recently as three months ago as a board member.
    Are you seriously expecting people to accept that you did not know? What is this the Nuremberg defense?
    And I have to ask, where is the allusive Martin Light in all of this? Why no transparency here? You are quick to attack, attack, attack, but when you are wrong why can’t you just say “hey we were wrong?”
    You are yesterdays news buddy.

    Like

  12. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    By the way since you are obviously keeping up on this why did you not correct your buddies Todd and Barry?

    Like

  13. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    That of course should read “illusive”. Sorry.

    Like

  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I think this is really funny. The left wing blog and their buds are apoplectic. Now they seem to be the only ones lobbying and possibly having some issues with the Elections code regarding non profits. I think this calls for an investigation. I would think a CEO and a bunch of really smart nerdy types on the left could figure things out. Alas, I guess that is not possible. I guess non profit means whatever one thinks it means.

    Like

  15. Russ Steele Avatar

    Steven,
    Sorry, the listed as board member was an error. I did not know about the CABPRO status until today, when I started looking a the application in the CABPRO News, which makes it clear that those signing up could not take a tax credit for joining. I could not find any reference to 501 (c) any where in the text, or on the web page. I was not interest in this pissing contest until you started making misstatements about my association with CABPRO.

    Like

  16. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    The statement was that ” CABPRO is a not for profit organization” and the statement that CABPRO was a 501 c4 was referenced on your site. If you did not start looking at it until today you missed the content from yesterday, the membership letter was changed overnight.
    I absolutely do not buy that you were unaware of this discussion. Any impartial reader would see that you guys got caught with your pants down.
    Lets be clear: CABPRO is not a not for profit, it is a for profit organization of businesses that get together and pool money to endorse candidates and ballot measures. Their stated purpose on their web site is to influence legislation and decisions. That is the definition of lobbying. As such they should be registered as lobbyists.
    While you were implying I should not be taking a position of public issues, you are associated with an organization that is lobbying, is not registered to do so, and is misrepresenting its status to the community at large.

    Like

  17. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    As I posted earlier, even George Rebane considers CABPRO to be a lobby. Check out the discussion on “B32/Prop23 is Very Relevant to Nevada County” The question is should they register as such.

    Like

  18. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Steve Frisch, I don’t recall anyone “implying [you] should not be taking a position of [sic] public issues”, only that you’re taking positions in print and on the radio and dodging just how much SBC revenues depend on the failure of Prop 23.
    You’ve mentioned particulates in the past. I’d love to hear your take on the now public admission that the CARB scientists (including the guy who lied about having a Ph.D. in Statistics who was finally fired) overstated the diesel particulate levels by 340% in the documents used to justify AB32 limits?

    Like

  19. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Now, let me say again that I’ve never been a CABPRO supporter, have never met George Rebane (though we’ve agreed we should sit down for coffee one of these days) and I’ve spent a total of about 45 minutes over coffee with Russ Steele. I did hear a woman from CABPRO speak once about a decade ago and it was on the nutty side involving the UN in whatever it was that she was on about. I’ve no idea whether her views were also the views of CABPRO, nor do I really care.
    What I see in this current feeding frenzy is the (local loony left) pot calling the (local wingnut right) kettle black.

    Like

  20. Don Pelton Avatar

    I’ve just read this whole thread for the first time, and — taking it together with the KVMR “discussion” on Prop23, which I also heard — I’m forcibly struck by one most conspicuous feature of the contentious dialog: It all started when Mr. Rebane imputed to Mr. Frisch a motive entirely and solely pecuniary:
    ” … he is simply a professional singing for his supper.”
    In a civilized dialog, it’s usually considered a bad practice — unskilful — to speak with utter certainty about the motives of the other.
    I don’t know Mr. Rebane, but I’d guess he’s probably motivated primarily by principle.
    What I don’t understand is why he’s unable to grant that Mr Frisch’s support of AB32 is likewise motivated by principle, rather than a base regard for money (“supper”).
    Mr Rebane either intended to score an insult, or else he intended to have a dialog but went about it unskillfully.

    Like

  21. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Anytime the president of a corporation is talking about something that is a facet of their business, they’re doing what they are paid to do. And most of the time, they actually believe in what their company does.
    Frisch is no different. At all. And it was a fair statement. If CABPRO could afford a $100K or so (or whatever his salary and benefits are) mouthpiece, they’d have someone slicker than George to appear on KVMR.
    Steve, what are your projected revenues with Prop 23 winning, and Prop 23 losing. An inquiring mind wants to know.

    Like

  22. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    I answered this question on another thread on Jeff Pelline’s blog, and I did about 2 months ago on either Russ or George’s blog, but no one took the time to actually LISTEN. You are all so busy trying to win that you can’t ever just stop and listen.
    SBC has NO current work that is funded by any state or federal entity for AB 32 implementation, NONE on the near horizon, and NONE in development right now. We are working on projects that reduce greenhouse gases, or help capture carbon, but they are all funded through other mechanisms, or privately, and are all VOLUNTARY. NONE of our work will be affected if Prop 23 passes. My salary is not dependent on one dime of AB 32 money.
    That is the first, last and only time I will answer this question. If I were to start disclosing things I am not required to I would never hear the end of criticism from the right crew. I am sure as soon as George and Russ were convinced of the truth of my words, they would just find something else to attack me for.
    This entire charge was red herring from the beginning, and they know it. Attacks like this are a strategy, learned from the master McCarthy and passed down through people like Russ and George because they intimidate people.
    I oppose PROP 23 because it is bad law, it will hurt our economy, it is bad for public health, and I do not want out of state corporate interests buying elections in California. This is California. I live in California, not Texas. You ‘states rights’ people should understand THAT!

    Like

  23. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    By the way Greg, no it is not always true that everyone is in it for the money. And I do believe that most corporate Presidents advocating for a policy that favors their business are doing it because the believe it is the right thing to do. I am actually a pretty committed capitalist.

    Like

  24. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    I look forward to seeing you working at “SBC” as a full time volunteer, Steve.
    You are still dancing around the obvious. A VOLUNTARY arrangement for carbon sequestration or reduction of “greenhouse gases” that throws income towards SBC would still seem to be DRIVEN by state, federal and even foreign regulations pushing public and private entities towards groups like SBA for their carbon sequestration and reduction of the bogey-gasses du jour needs.
    If 23 passes, the only US cap and trade legislation on the books will be put to a deserved long term sleep, and carbon sequestration schemes like yours will not be a growth industry. Please, if I have this wrong, please correct.
    “If I were to start disclosing things I am not required to I would never hear the end of criticism from the right crew.” — I suspect the ‘right crew’ thinks the same things about what you’re asking for, but you’d have to ask them.

    Like

  25. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    By the way, since it’s VC (venture/vulture capital) that is pouring money into the No on 23 camp, millions of bucks, it isn’t an issue of corporate vs non-corporate involvement into our laws.
    McCarthy was a piker compared to Alinsky.

    Like

  26. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Greg, I did work as a volunteer on a couple of projects before I was a staff member at SBC. Volunteerism is a great thing. Somehow I suspect that is not what you meant. I think you meant that you look forward to a time when I am unemployed. I think that is pretty mean. Why would you wish ill on someone? Just because we don’t agree on a policy issue? You really wish ill on people? That is crazy dude. All that anger will shorten your life you know.
    I am dancing around nothing. The voluntary carbon market was around long before AB 32, and if Prop 23 passes, will still be around. Besides the charge thrown around here was not that SBC would benefit from any regulation, it was that I stood to gain personally from the failure of PROP 23.
    I do not. You asked the question, about revenue before and after a potential passage of Prop 23, and I precisely answered it. Prop 23 has no impact on SBC’s revenue. Don’t try to change the question.
    You are wrong about voluntary carbon markets by the way. They are driven by specific entities, including many corporation, deciding they want to offset carbon emissions. Some people want to do the right thing because they believe in global warming. To be consistent with your philosophy, if they want to do that you should not want to stand in their way. Proof of the point they want to is that they ARE ALREADY DOING IT WITHOUT REGULATION. They started doing it more than 10 years ago.
    I did not start the questions about non-profit status, Russ, George, Todd and Barry did, by challenging my legal standing to comment on a public issue, and comparing my organization to CABPRO. Barry, Todd, Russ and Martin are the ones who stated CABPRO is a non-profit. George stood by and allowed others to state CABPRO is a non-profit without correcting them, and he is a former board member of the organization. If he did not know their legal status he was pretty poor board member wouldn’t you say?
    If they are a non-profit I am not asking for anything they are not legally required to provide the pubic upon request. Mine is at the AG’s office and available for review upon request. But of course it appears CABPRO is not a non-profit–they have been misrepresenting their status to the community for all these years. How ironic.
    Plus, you just proved my point. I answer a direct question completely honestly and you will still find a way to attack me, wish ill on me, and misrepresent the truth.

    Like

  27. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    As Violet said in “Its a Wonderful Life”, what the matter with that?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky
    hehe….just tweaking ya dude.

    Like

  28. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    I oppose AB32 because it is bad law, it is already hurting our economy, inflating Californian’s energy costs doesn’t promote public health, and I don’t want bad science pummeling companies, no matter what state their headquarters is located, whose only crime is to have invested in California’s energy infrastructure.
    And of course, we now know that CARB chair Mary Nichols knew her ‘scientists’ had made a teensy little 340% error in the diesel particulate study that resulted in one of your favorite AB32 regulations. And she didn’t even tell the board members before they voted on the regulation that she already had known the lead ‘scientist’ had a mail order Ph.D. and not the statistics Ph.D from a UC that he had originally claimed.
    The CARB needs to be euthanized. Dysfunctional and duplicative.

    Like

  29. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    You miss the point…the carbon projects I am working on are voluntary–private companies should have a right to offset their carbon emissions if they want to.
    The diesel regulation was not “one of my favorite AB 32 regulations”, on several occasions I have stated that if it is flawed it should be changed.
    So now Ms. Nichols, after conferring with and negotiating a reasonable solution with industry, has proposed a change. Isn’t that what you would want government to do?
    You are sounding a lot like, “agree with what I want 100% or it is no deal”. That just is not how it works in a civil society.

    Like

  30. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    Greg, may I suggest using more emotional based arguments to make your points… these nanny government (anti-liberty) types don’t respond well to reason and facts; remember tears and fears, not logic and facts.
    Think of the thousands of children on welfare and hot lunches due to AB32 already with many more to come. Think of the fathers who drink, yell and God forbid abuse their family due to the stress created by loosing their job due to insurmountable regulations and taxes. Think of the business owners who are forced to lay off employees (thanks to AB32) whom they consider members of their families. Think of moving your family into a 5th wheel on a relative land, leaving the only home, friends, neighbors, school your kids ever knew all because some idiots believe that economic growth comes by the seeds of regulation and taxes.

    Like

  31. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    …think of the additional divorces due (split families) to the financial stress created by AB32 and the rest of the nanny government micromanagement of out lives, think of the increases in prisoners as a life of crime is a more appealing option, think of the increases in suicides due men being pushed ‘over the line’ by a tyrannical government, think of the decreased donations to churches and other non profits in our communities as governments steal more from the citizens, think of the increases of families without health insurance due to lack of employment opportunities thanks to heavy handed government, think of the solutions to our (fuel, medical cures, etc) which will not be explored, designed or developed because government has stolen the wills (increased the risk and decreased the reward) of the entrepreneur.
    Those who look to government for help get what they deserve.

    Like

  32. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    The government is so tyrannical. I know where I hope the consequences of the nanny state begin.

    Like

  33. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    If the left only had as much compassion for their neighbors as they have for dogs and trees we would all be better off.

    Like

  34. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    McD one day you will be a headline.
    I think this thread about says it all about George’s moral fiber and the rights credibility. Anyone form outside can read the thread and understand who is compassionate.
    I think its time to retire.

    Like

  35. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    Robin Hood, if Goldman Sachs, Walmart, Exxon, [insert company name here] received government money to lobby for more government money and government favors we would consider them crooks. But, if SBC and other NGO’s do it we are supposed to look the other way? Unfortunately, in this real world example it is “I” John Q Taxpayer that is consistently violated.

    Like

  36. Barry Pruett Avatar

    We are all compassionate. Some of us have both compassion and common sense…

    Like

  37. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    “So now Ms. Nichols, after conferring with and negotiating a reasonable solution with industry, has proposed a change. Isn’t that what you would want government to do?”
    No. I want government to get the facts right, not knowingly skew them to expand its control. Also – I too want to “do the right thing” (Prop 23) because I believe that underlying the anthropogenic global warming hoax lies a subversive threat to our constitutional liberty.

    Like

  38. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Nicely put, Barry.
    Though you and I would probably have to agree to disagree on who among us walk with that mantle of common sense.
    (-;

    Like

  39. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Bob,
    It is my belief that Occam’s razor precludes both of your contentions.
    “No. I want government to get the facts right, not knowingly skew them to expand its control. Also – I too want to ‘do the right thing’ (Prop 23) because I believe that underlying the anthropogenic global warming hoax lies a subversive threat to our constitutional liberty.”

    Like

  40. Russ Steele Avatar

    George is out of the country and he sent me a instant message by cellphone that he is having connectivity laptop problems. He ask me to let you know he will re-enter the conversation once the problem is solved.

    Like

  41. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Bob
    “No. I want government to get the facts right, not knowingly skew them to expand its control.”
    Did you apply the same criteria for the government getting the facts right for the justifications of our invasion of Iraq?

    Like

  42. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Paul what do you expect? the FBI to give Saddam a lie detector test on WMD’s before we did anything?
    Saddam was very good, he had everybody in the world convinced he had them to gain stature in the Arab world because he didn’t think anybody would call him on it, guess that was a bad bet but he had everybody fooled.
    Sometimes you just have to take the best information available and make a leap of faith, because when your sure its too late.
    Lee Iaccoca – on building the Mustang

    Like

  43. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    The Mustang was a huge win.
    The war in Iraq was a huge lose.
    Equating them is pedantic at best, ridiculous at worst.
    Guys like the Shah of Iran and Saddam were blowback from our inability to become less dependent on foreign oil when the problem became obvious forty years ago.
    Paul’s question is completely valid. Can you answer it?

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  44. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    “The war in Iraq was a huge lose.”
    Yes, I’m sure you think so Michael.
    Others, not so much.
    http://tinyurl.com/2a4d363
    But hey, you’re in good company.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niPmXym7u3g

    Like

  45. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    Repubs and dems USE government as the means to their ends (the repubs with fake WMD tales and the Dems with fake/embellished science). Need I point out that the real crisis is the faith/power/control with which we give our government?
    Our government has micro-managed our lives to the point of forcing us into 13mpg gasoline powered trucks (using everything from tax incentives to yanking public transit, etc). Our government is a glorified prostitute, sleeping with the Unions and corporations at the expense of taxpayers, personal liberty, environment, world relations.

    Like

  46. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    My point was, your only sure when he has already used one = too late. I’m quite sure there was much thought put into it before a decision was made, it wasn’t just cause he was a meany.
    what do you propose to do with Iran – you might want to checkout the 13th Imam sect, the Atollah (sp) that overthru the Shah had them banned because they were too crazy – guess what they run the country now the Pres is one. When will we be sure they have one??

    Like

  47. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Take the time to read Ron Paul’s essay on the influence of the “Neo Cons” in our decision to go to war then tell me what you think. Here’s a teaser
    “The election of 2000 changed all that. The Defense Policy Board, chaired by Richard Perle played no small role in coordinating the various projects and think tanks, all determined to take us into war against Iraq. It wasn’t too long before the dream of empire was brought closer to reality by the election of 2000 with Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld playing key roles in this accomplishment. The plan to promote an “American greatness” imperialistic foreign policy was now a distinct possibility. Iraq offered a great opportunity to prove their long-held theories. This opportunity was a consequence of the 9-11 disaster.”
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul110.html

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  48. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Then I take it you are a Ron Paul supporter?

    Like

  49. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I am on foreign policy and many other issues. I am trying to carve out a position of being a Green Libertarian. I think Ron Paul is one of the great thinkers of our time and needs to be read and discussed by all persuasions. He’s not much of a Republican but sleeps in that camp for pragmatic reasons. It’s amazing how fast he was dumped by the various TP’s now that they’ve been sucked into the Republican election agenda.

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  50. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Don’t you get it Paul Emery? You must either be a Ron Paul supporter, and be one completely, or not be a Ron Paul supporter. You must BE the Tea Party or not BE the Tea Party. You must BE a conservative or BE a liberal. You must BE a Republican or BE a Democrat. You must either HATE our government or be a liberal sycophant.
    There is no in between, no nuance, no blending of philosophies to construct a personal political philosophy. No ability to simultaneously believe in the classical liberalisms of the 19th century and its civil liberties protections and recognize the economic and social complexities of the modern world.

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