Rebane's Ruminations
June 2010
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George Rebane

Every once in a while we hear a peep about huge reserves of natural gas opening up because of new extraction technologies like ‘fracking’.  The US and Canada have reserves that will serve us for over a century.  It is simply political will or its lack that keeps us from reducing, or even completely eliminating our dependence on foreign oil.

USenergy 

Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground.  A good survey article on all this is ‘Wonderfuel: Welcome to the age of unconventional gas’ published in the New Scientist.


As our new administration is attempting to push through its so-called energy bill (Kerry/Lieberman), the next milestone on the road to socialism, you will not hear much about this or other reasonable alternatives to impact federal energy policy.  The compliant media is fulfilling its established role by offering no discussion of this as November approaches.  It’s still the ‘we gotta do something!’, and the only alternative presented to the sheeple is Obama’s cap and tax.  Not only that, but we must impose this government cancer on ourselves even faster than we had Obamacare shoved up our … .  ‘It’s now or never.’

Well, never sounds good to me.  Kerry/Lieberman will do nothing to address real energy issues, but it will deepen our financial/national crisis by unilaterally hamstringing the US economy.  And without a vibrant economy, nothing will get done in this or any other area of public policy.

Specifically, Obama’s rush to ruin ignores some very important factors that counsel taking a more deliberate route to a national energy policy –

• There is no impending shortage of fossil fuels that limit our economic growth;
• Cleaner fossil fuels are available and abundant to bridge any reasonable transition to alternative sources of energy;
• The proposed ‘energy’ legislation has no impact on the worldwide generation of greenhouse gases, but portends devastation on the US economy;
• Man-made global warming ranges from doubtful to a politically motivated myth laced with fraud whose debate has been suppressed by governments, and their bought and paid science lackeys – it is time to allow free and open debate on the science climate change;
• Market driven renewable energy extraction and generation technologies will evolve rapidly over the near-term in beneficial ways that are least visible to stagnant government bureaucracies.

In sum, this is no time to rush pell-mell into imposing short-sighted constraints just because big government progressives are afraid of losing control of Congress in November.  Reasoned and reasonable alternatives exist (more here).

Posted in ,

31 responses to “The Secrecy of Unnatural Gas Reserves”

  1. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Natural gas is a good energy source of America… but ‘fracking’ is a big problem. In many places where fracking has been used they end up with a number of problems, including a lot of ground water contamination. In some cases folks can even light the water coming from their faucets.
    Fracking has had major impacts where it has been used.

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  2. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    George says… “Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”.
    Sorry George, but you need to do a little research. Fracking has big issues and nasty impacts.
    And what about the natural gas in Gulf spill adding new dimensions to catastrophe and it’s unknown risks to ecosystem?
    The crude gushing from the well contains vast amounts of natural gas that could pose a serious threat to the Gulf of Mexico’s fragile ecosystem.
    The oil from the “leak” contains about 40 percent methane, compared with about 5 percent found in typical oil deposits.
    Huge quantities of methane/natural gas have entered the Gulf potentially suffocating marine life and creating “dead zones” where oxygen is so depleted that nothing can live.
    But George makes the statement “Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”… Seems reality shows other wise.

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  3. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Fracking has had some water table problems, but, according to the sources I have seen and link to in the post, they have been rare and only under extenuating circumstances. Steve, if you have some contrary evidence (links?), then that’s an important factor to add to the discussion. Thanks.

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  4. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Lighting water out their faucets – pleeaassee I would really like a lnk to that and it better have pics
    Ok so now oil is out – natural gas is out – whats your plan Steve

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  5. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    The reserves cited in this post are US and Canadian land wells. Connecting the Gulf oil well catastrophe and its spewing of a mixture of oil and gas into this discussion is a red herring. But Steve’s second comment is the way that the pro cap & tax arguments will be framed – ‘do not look at natural gas, it’s just as dangerous as oil’.

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  6. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Hey Dixon, do a little reading about the “lighting water out their faucets” issues and fracking… get informed and report back.

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  7. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Sorry George, don’t try to put words in my mouth. I said ” Natural gas is a good energy source of America”. Natural gas is important to our energy needs and future. Isn’t that clear?
    What I said was fracking is a big problem and where it has been used there are many major issues with ground water and well contamination and that must be addressed and curtailed. Isn’t that clear?
    George it was you that posted… “Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”.
    I posted that natural gas has many issues and I raised the Gulf oil and natural gas issues as an exampled response to your claim that natural gas “exaction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”.
    In many cases natural gas is extracted as part of the oil extraction process, as in the Gulf, as in the Gulf oil “leak” that Diaxon said was no big deal and wasn’t having an economic impact.
    I think natural gas is a good source of energy and we have a lot of it. BUT… don’t screw things up extracting it. Isn’t thar clear?

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  8. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Steve, no intention ever to put words in your mouth, I have a hard enough time trying to keep a civil conversation going with you. Apologies. Thanks for your insights.

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  9. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    George… what part of my above posts are uncivil, what parts do you have a hard time with?
    I think my above posts are specific to the issues and address the issues you raised. What part of my posts above on this issue do you think are wrong?
    You said “Connecting the Gulf oil well catastrophe and its spewing of a mixture of oil and gas into this discussion is a red herring”.
    George it was you that also posted above “Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”. I responded to your claim as that is not the case.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Wasn’t really referring to this thread Steve, but in the past it has been difficult. You do have an irritable mien though, and skirt the border of civility even here. For example, in an above comment you insert “Sorry George, but you need to do a little research. …” I am citing the conclusions of an article in New Scientist, one of the more prestigious web science sites today. A more civil response would have been for you to take issue with my citation instead of impuning my ‘research’. It’s these kinds of little snarkies that make the discussions a bit ragged.

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  11. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    Wow – so it’s 5 to 2 against natural gas. Enos 5, natural gas 2. I’m convinced! BTW, where are the links to your sources, Enos?
    PS BTW, where is your blog site link, please…

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  12. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    “snarkies”… George, are you staking out the ground that you don’t snark too?
    Does Dixon snark? Every post about Dixon’s snarking?
    “Sorry George, but you need to do a little research. Fracking has big issues and nasty impacts”… no snark, supported by fact and your own, incorrect statement that… “Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”.

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  13. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Bob, I don’t have a blog site. It’s a workout for my computer skills to just turn it on most days. I don’t text or skipe or IPhone or any of that stuff. I use pencils.

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  14. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Good discussion. Let’s keep going.
    Steve, no worries. Pencils are good.
    And yes, let’s turn down the snark. On all sides.
    I read a book entitled “The Bottomless Well” by Peter Huber and Mark Mills about 5 years ago. It explains why wearing hairshirts is not in our cards. Thank you George for continuing that discussion, natural gas will indeed be much our savior.
    That being said, there are good ways to extract these resources, and bad ways. I would argue that BP management was too stratified to have effective control of their business. Numerous safety violations, going back quite a ways, and here we are.
    There are a lot of similarities to the recent failures on Wall Street. Not so much a lack of gov’t regulation, as an economic culture that does not reward people who take personal responsibility.
    I find that tragic.
    Along those lines, read this story from a website I frequent. I think you will find it most interesting:
    http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/what-bp-isnt-saying/1185
    George, your recent post about not trying to kill the hole with a large explosive device was right on the money. Sometimes that could be a great solution, but not here. This geologic formation appears to be pretty sketchy. Again, what a tragedy.
    M.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Michael, that link provides quite a snootfull of allegations of what is down there. If true, why do you think that no one in the media has put this on in prime time? Why is it only being discussed in esoteric investment advisories?

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  16. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    “Why is it only being discussed in esoteric investment advisories?”
    Great question, George. But the fact of the matter is, it’s being discussed here in this blog as well.
    My oldest son is going down to New Orleans next week to help with the cleanup (he turns 24 this summer, just received his BS in Environmental Science from Humboldt State University).
    The channels of communication are different than they have been for the past several decades. It will take some getting used to…
    M.

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  17. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Bottom line: MSM does not publish bad news, all things considered.
    Even the NYT has a hard time with this subject. I agree that the media landscape is changing big time.

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  18. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Steve why should I spend my time doing research – you stated you know all about this flaming water from faucts caused by fracking – if you found it just tell us, shouldn’t be secret – if its total BS like I think it is you won’t post squat and if you don’t back up what your saying please exit the natural gas conversation -Anna
    put up or shut up Steve – flaming water from faucts please or quit wasting everybody’s time responding to your drivel

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  19. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Poor. poor Dixon.. get a grip. This has even been covered by FOX NEWS. The following story was in the LA Post on June 18th… do you know how to use Google Dixon?
    Fracking has BIG issues and impacts… but George says “Natural gas is clean and plentiful, and its extraction is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”. Sorry… not the case and FACTS show George’s claim to be false.
    Dixon, watch the FOX HBO special on this called… “Gasland,” a compelling documentary on FOX HBO airing Monday, June 21 ( 9 p.m. ET/PT)!
    And George, Dixon is a regular poster here and spends most his time making snarky remarks and personal attacks.. care to address THAT or do you just raise that issue with me?? Seems Dixon can’t be involved in a rational discussion. So George what about THAT?
    Los Angles Time, June 18, 2010:
    Gulf oil spill worsens — but what about the safety of gas fracking?
    Imagine a siege of hydrocarbons spewing from deep below ground, polluting water and air, sickening animals and threatening the health of unsuspecting Americans. And no one knows how long it will last.
    No, we’re not talking about BP’s gulf oil spill. We’re talking about hydraulic fracturing of natural gas deposits. And if that phrase makes your eyes glaze over, start blinking them open. Fracking, as the practice is also known, may be coming to a drinking well or a water system near you. It involves blasting water, sand and chemicals, many of them toxic, into underground rock to extract oil or gas.
    “Gasland,” a compelling documentary on HBO airing Monday, June 21 ( 9 p.m. ET/PT), traces hydraulic fracturing across 34 states from California to Louisiana to Pennsylvania. The exposé by filmmaker Josh Fox, alternately chilling and darkly humorous, won the 2010 Sundance Film Festival’s special jury prize for documentary.
    It details how former Vice President Dick Cheney, in partnership with the energy industry and drilling companies such as his former employer, Halliburton Corp., successfully pressured Congress in 2005 to exempt fracking from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws.
    And it highlights the battle in Congress today over whether to repeal the provision that allows gas companies to conceal which chemicals they inject into the ground as “trade secrets.” Each well requires the high-pressure injection of a cocktail of nearly 600 chemicals, including known carcinogens and neurotoxins, diluted in 1 million to 7 million gallons of water.
    Some 450,000 wells have been drilled nationwide.
    Coincidentally, a month before the blowout of the gulf oil well, Energy and Environment Daily, an independent publication, published a draft of proposed language to exempt fracking from chemical disclosure rules in pending Senate energy and climate legislation. The primary author? BP America Inc.
    Fox’s HBO film shows rural residents in Colorado and other states flicking on cigarette lighters next to their kitchen faucets and watching their drinking water, infused with gas and chemicals, ignite in flames as high as 3 feet. Fox interviews scores of residents suffering from neurological damage and other ailments after their water went bad.
    Many said they were pressured by drilling companies into signing nondisclosure agreements in exchange for paltry settlements.
    Policymakers often tout gas as a cleaner fuel than oil or coal, one that emits less pollution when burned, and thus a possible “bridge” to renewable energy. Gas companies say the fracking process is safe and has resulted in few contamination accidents. And they say that states have sufficient regulatory power over fracking, so federal oversight is unnecessary.
    Gas companies are seeking drilling rights to the vast Marcellus Shale Field, dubbed “the Saudia Arabia of natural gas” below New York and Pennsylvania. But the field sits beneath the last unfiltered watershed in the U.S. serving tens of millions of residents of New York City, Philadelphia and the surrounding area. Fox, who grew up in rural Pennsylvania, was approached by a gas company to sell the rights under his family’s land — an offer that prompted his curiosity and ultimately his cross-country investigation, toting a banjo in his beat-up car and weaving his personal story through the documentary.
    Contaminated drinking water isn’t the only issue. In the Dallas-Fort Worth area, roughly 10,000 gas wells spew more pollution into the air than all the cars and trucks in the region, the film reports.
    The Environmental Protection Agency in March announced it will conduct a comprehensive $1.9-million peer-reviewed study on the “potential adverse impact that hydraulic fracturing may have on water quality and public health.”
    Meanwhile, although BP’s oil spill has pushed other energy issues off the public radar, this HBO film, also showing on June 24, 26 and 30, and July 5, is a reminder that offshore drilling is not the only energy-related hazard worth thinking about.
    –Margot Roosevelt
    Dixon, get a grip, get informed and learn to use Google.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Steve, the information you cite on fracking is daunting indeed and may carry the day. Most certainly under this administration we should have no fears that anyone is going to favor the energy companies – especially while the Gulf shorelines are coated with oil. In any event, I believe that fracking is going to have its day in the courts of regulation and public opinion. And it may turn out that we have yet to crack the code on a method of safely and affordably extracting gas from shale sands and rock formations. Until then, fracking continues under existing regulations.

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  21. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Few regulations cover fracking because… former Vice President Dick Cheney, in partnership with the energy industry and drilling companies such as his former employer, Halliburton Corp., successfully pressured Congress in 2005 to exempt fracking from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws.
    Now we see the results for this lack of oversight cooked up by Cheney.
    And George, Dixon is a regular poster here and spends most his time making snarky remarks and personal attacks… can you address that or do you just raise that issue with me? Seems Dixon can’t be involved in a rational discussion. George what about that?
    George if you want to learn more about the wide range and extensive impacts fracking has caused so far… watch the HBO special because when you claimed “Natural gas is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground” you were wrong.
    Fracking has and continues to cause massive impacts that others pay for it. Others end up holding the bag and paying the price… everyday people, common people, hard working blue collar Americans, while big oil profits.
    PS: was at Milwal again today, much better to buy ammo on Sunday when the crowds are much lower. Was nice to see you and Russ there Saturday.

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  22. Mikeymcd Avatar
    Mikeymcd

    We all need bp.

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  23. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    We ALL need clean and healthy water.

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  24. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Steve,
    I’d be interested to know the percentage of natural gas extracted through fracking methods, as opposed to the regular way (i.e. just let the natural psi send it to the holding tanks). No doubt fracking can foul the water table when used inconsiderately.
    Just got back from Concours d’Elegance at Carnelian Bay. None of those gorgeous 12-cylinder engines would work w/o light distillates. Gotta hate ’em, gotta love ’em. Watched this baby fire up her twin Allison V-12 aircraft engines and take off for Tahoe City–man, there’s nothing else like it: http://www.thunderbirdlodge.org/theboat.html
    My dream is that America can come up with the next round of technological innovation and beauty, represented for example in the boating world, by the perfection of Hacker, Chris-Craft, and Gar Woods.
    We’ve lost our edge. How can we lead the 21st century in new technologies that show the rest of the world how to do it, like we did in the 20th? Adaptation is the key.

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  25. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Ok so someone else also said it and I presume they will have evidence as well, so I stand corrected. As much news as I follow seems something like that would have been news already but I guess your on the cutting edge.
    Sounds like this is something kinda new and appears like it may not be suitable for all locations. For example the land and soil in Fla and CO are quite different and it might be safe in one location and not another.

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  26. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    My BS Meter is working just fine Well well well – smelled the BS from along way off
    ‘Gasland’ film is full of (ahem) naturally occurring methane
    By: Barbara Hollingsworth
    Local Opinion Editor
    06/24/10 11:20 AM EDT
    Pennsylvania’s secretary of the environment says “Gasland” – an award-winning HBO documentary about the natural gas industry in which he appears – is “fundamentally dishonest” and “a deliberately false presentation for dramatic effect.”
    John Hanger, the state official who was the former head of the environmental group Citizens for Pennsylvania’s Future, called filmmaker Josh Fox “a propagandist,” pointing out that the film inaccurately depicted him as a tool of the natural gas industry despite the fact that he fought for stricter regulations of hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking,” a technique used to free natural gas trapped in rock formations.
    “There are real problems in this industry,” Hanger told the Philadelphia Inquirer. “But this movie certainly contributes to more public misunderstanding.”
    Fox’s documentary, which won a Sundance Film Festival award, depicts numerous environmental disasters he claims are caused by fracking, including water taps bursting into flames.
    But industry experts say that after 60 years of hydraulic fracturing in one million wells, there are no proven cases of ground water contamination from the process.
    The American Petroleum Institute also points out that in Colorado, where the flaming faucets were filmed, “the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission devoted significant staff and financial resources to thoroughly investigate these cases, and specifically excluded natural gas drilling as a cause of flammable water in each. The commission determined that, in reality, the source was naturally occurring methane.”
    So it seems that “Gasland” is full of gas – just the wrong kind.
    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/gasland-film-is-full-of-ahem-naturally-occurring-methane-97070864.html#ixzz0rml8qtKR

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  27. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Sorry Dixon… fracking is bad and fracking has caused a lot of nasty, long term problems where used.
    And how’s that Gulf oil “leak” that you have said was no big deal, the one you have claimed is not impacting Florida and Florid’s economy?
    Isn’t that an oil and gas “leak” that is killing everything off?

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  28. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Sorry Steve a swing and a miss, your flaming faucets is total BS so you just state fracking is bad – Brillient
    how can this new technoligy have caused long term problems if its so new ???
    then change the subject

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  29. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Dixon… the facts are there… fracking and flaming water due to fracking is real.
    And how’s that Gulf oil “leak” that you have said was no big deal, the one you have claimed is not impacting Florida and Florida’s economy?
    Isn’t that an oil and gas “leak” that is killing everything off?

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  30. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    And praytell what does the gulf spill have to do with fracking – plus you still have not provided any links to reference the dangers of fracking – unless you really have never read anything about it and just heard it from jeff

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  31. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Sorry Dixon, read the post above I provided about fracking. Try putting fracking in Google and take 2 minutes to educate yourself a bit. Fracking has casued a lot of problems and that is a fact.
    Connection to the Gulf… George made a claim that gas extraction didn’t have impacts, see my response about that. George claimed “Natural gas is free of the concerns connected with pulling coal and oil out of the ground”…wrong!
    Natural gas is very often a “by product” of oil wells. You see oil and gas travel together. One of the big damages from the Gulf “leak” is the massive amount of natural gas that that is “spilling” with the oil…. the connection! The natural gas is having a major impact of the water and those that are trying to live in the water. That’s the connection.
    So.. can you respond to this:
    How’s that Gulf oil “leak” that you have said was no big deal, the one you have claimed is not impacting Florida and Florida’s economy?
    Isn’t that an oil and gas “leak” that is killing everything off, including the economy of coastal Flordia?
    The panhandle now has oil coming ashore Dixon… but you claim no impacts to Florida and it’s economy? Do you watch the news or read a newspaper?
    Western Florida beaches and wetlands are getting oiled, the Florida fishing industry is getting screwed, tourism is way down and the coast is empty of tourist and spots fisherman. The economy is getting hammered and a lot of regular folks are paying the real price. But you claim it’s no big deal and Florida isn’t impacted… go figure!

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